Saturday, May 3, 2008

Derby Time

Anyone get any favorites for the Kentucky Derby today? I like Pyro and Colonel John in an exacta box. For long shots I am looking at Cowboy Cal (with the always dangerous Pletcher / Velazquez combo) and Bob Black Jack. Can I ILLICIT any other tips or suggestions?

23 comments:

Kris said...

Eight Belles! I have to say this is a totally emotional pick.

Kris said...

Phishbone23 picks Cowboy Cal.

Kris said...

Poor Eight Belles. Why does this always seem to happen to the fillies? Ruffian did something similar. Guys, please don't make sarcastic comments about why girls shouldn't play with guys, that would be really in poor taste right now.

Kris said...

I guess I would like to add something more. I don't know when Eight Belles broke her front ankles, but whenever it was she still ran one hell of a race. To be able to have two broken ankles and still come in second in the Derby is an amazing feat. The Derby is history making in itself, but seeing a horse perform like that under such circumstances is something awesome and something I hope to never again see in my lifetime.

kevthegreat said...

It's a horse... Sorry, I feel about as much empathy for a horse as I do for the cow that made the yummy hamburger I had yesterday.

Mikey OOO said...

How can a person have empathy for a horse? Wouldn't it have to be sympathy? I mean Kev could never understand what a horse is going through because he is not a horse.

kevthegreat said...

Sympathy comes from empathy. People feel bad for the horse because they anthropomorphism it. I say, without empathy there is no sympathy, and I stand by my last comment. So there.

Kris said...

It isn't even about Eight Belles as horse, but rather as an athlete. Kev, can you not appreciate the athleticism that Eight Belles demonstrated and how tragic it was for that to be rewarded with death? I mean how would you feel if Eli Manning had dropped dead on the field after the final play of the Super Bowl? It would have been a tragic loss of a great athlete.

kevthegreat said...

It's a fucking horse! Eli Manning is a human (or so I'm told). There is no comparison of the two. I would feel bad if Eli dropped dead because he is a young likeable guy, not because he was a great athlete (he actually isn't the most athletic guy, he can just throw a ball a mile). And I don't feel very bad for the horse, because, well, IT'S A FUCKING HORSE! That's why I can't fucking stand PETA. They completely anthropomorphise all animals, when we have no fucking clue what the animals feel like. They have tiny little brains and don't perceive the world as we do.

Kris said...

Kev, they are both athletes! Think of the time and money put into both the horse and the human athlete. If you wouldn't feel bad because of athletic talent that would be lost if Eli Manning dropped dead on the field (or any other human athlete for that matter) then I can't blame you for not feeling bad when a horse with athletic ability drops dead. I, however, appreciate athletic talent, in whatever form it takes. In the Eli Manning example,I don't know Eli Manning personally, I don't know if he is actually likable. I am likely to never know that. All I know if is that I enjoy watching him play football. I appreciate what he can do with said football. Just like I appreciated Eight Belles ability to run like she did. Not every person can throw a ball like Eli Manning and seeing a filly with talent like Eight Belles is even rarer. Horse or not, it is the loss of talent and athleticism that makes me sad. I would probably feel worse for Eli Manning's family than I do for the trainer and owner of Eight Belles. For me that is where the difference comes in. It is a tragedy to lose a horse, but no matter what people say, it cannot compare to losing a child. That I won't contest. But I still can't see how you can say that Eight Belles was not an impressive example of athletic talent in a horse.

Kris said...

Also, I really don't think that I am anthropomorphizing Eight Belles. I am not saying that she had human emotions, I am saying that seeing genetics come together in such a way to create an elite athlete of any form is pretty special and to see that lost before it reached its full potential is sad for a person like me who appreciates athletic talent. I actually think that you are so stuck on the idea that people are mourning Eight Belles like she was a human that you can't appreciate what I am saying.

kevthegreat said...

Of course you're anthropomorphizing Eight Belles! You're comparing her death to the death of Eli Manning! And I find it sad that you place value on life based on said objects athleticism.

Kris said...

I am not giving Eight Belles human emotions. How is placing value on extreme athleticism different than placing value on say extreme intelligence. Both are genetic qualities. I am not saying that is the only thing to place value on. But raw talent that has been developed is something that should be appreciated in whatever form it takes. DaVinci produced beautiful works of art with his talent. Should we not say he was great for that? I find that watching a highly trained talented athlete perform is amazing. It is rare that nature works to produce something that comes nearer to perfection in one aspect than the norm and then that circumstances allow that aspect to be fully developed and honed. When that does happen it should be appreciated and valued. There are, of course, other things in life that have value placed on them. This is just one thing that happens to have been highlighted by current events. Raw talent by itself is not enough, it is also the refining of that talent that makes it impressive.

kevthegreat said...

So, I should feel worst about a fast horse dying than the cow that made the burgers I am having for lunch? Maybe that cow was the most aathletic cow in the world, and you know what? I don't give a fuck because it's a fucking cow!

Kris said...

Do you feel bad about some average unknown person dying in some random act of violence? Probably not. In fact you probably don't even think about that when you see it for two seconds on the news. Even though that person may have been a nicer younger person than Eli Manning. For you, Eli Manning's death would mean more. How much something affects us usually depends on how much we care about that in the first place. I appreciate athletic talent in general so to me Eight Belles death was sad, but to you it doesn't matter, so no she makes no more difference to you that the cow you will be enjoying for lunch today, or the person on the news. I know you may want to react to this and be like "I care about people", but we all know that in reality we don't really care much about things that don't directly affect us, human or otherwise. I may sounds cold and heartless, but anyone who knows me knows that is not true. I am just being honest about humanity in general.

Kris said...

If that cow was the most athletic cow that ever lived, then its potential went totally undeveloped and thus all that means is that is is probably pretty lean meat and will probably taste pretty good. :) Just like you may have the potential to be the most amazing indie film maker ever, but if you do nothing to develop it, then it doesn't mean much.

Kris said...

I'm not saying that means that we should have you for lunch...Just that I think you need to make a movie.

DrX said...

While I am human, and capable of feeling sympathy for a horse, I would argue that the horse here wasn't a great athlete.

While sure, it was a fast horse, it obviously didn't have the genetics necessary for it to be a top athlete. It had a genetic problem that caused it to literally be too strong for its own good. Steven Hawking could probably be a brilliant quarterback, but um... he can't walk.

Kris said...

Dr. X, That is a valid argument. I just read an article talking about how thoroughbreds today are not being bred for stamina and endurance over an entire season and it was this type breeding that led to Eight Belles breakdown. The article pointed out that great horses of the past ran upward of 11 races a year, but that , for example, Big Brown is likely to be retired to stud after just nine races in his entire career. However, I am basing my opinion of Eight Belles on the fact that she ran with the boys and beat all but one, albeit in just on race. Based on that I am saying that she had the makings of a potentially great athlete. I definitely see your point, although if you think about it in terms of the fact that out of all of the horses born in 2005 she started with the 20 best and finished second. That is kind of like being the second pick in the NFL draft. Not a bad argument for being a talented athlete. (And yes I do realize that not all #2 draft picks pan out, but work with me here) I am, however, assuming that if she hadn't broken her front legs should would have continued being as strong as she looked at Sat. and that is just a guess on my part. But there have been human athletes that have been called potentially great if it hadn't been for bad knees/back whatever. She may not have been the best, but it sure was nice watching her run while she did.

kevthegreat said...

Kris, you keep making my point for me. If I don't care about people I don't know dying, why should I care about a horse I don't know dying? Just because it's athletic and had bad ankles? Anyways, let's stop kicking a dead horse, and end this useless conversation.

Kris said...

Let's go back to the conversation where you and Phishbone23 make a great indie film and take me to Sundance. :)

kevthegreat said...

I have several scripts for short films. It'd be a good way to get our feet wet... I'm all for it, we just need a camera, a time and place for all of us to get together and maybe some actors.

Kris said...

You know me, I am dramatic :) Plus I took lots of acting classes when I was a kid, and I was in the improv troupe in college.....

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